Understanding the combined capacitence

resistance and choking methods

Once I figured out I need to add more turns to primary to get 10.5 ohms of resistance I became worried about turns ratio. 

The process looked right is excel spread sheet above I did not trust the turns ratios was correct, s

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Ronnie 

Winding data shows I need a ratio of 5.567 to 1. Will not know if I get close enough until I actually wind the wire. I plan to start out with primary winding know length of wire that is equal to 10.5 ohms. 

Coil winder will then give me number of turns for this resistance.  Will do the same for secondary to see how close I get turns ratio.  There were comments about being something than you have to play with to get correct. 

Given a fix resistance and fixed turns ratio only thing in this system I can see you can change is spool width. I expect the changing the secondary would have the most effect do to increased length of each turn as you add more wire. 

There is some discussion about this issue in the thread.
In this post he also explains coil relation to secondary and goal of getting voltage potential across coil plates.

 : "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
 
Using Stan's Vic and the numbers Don gave us as an example,

I will attempt to show how to impedance match it all.

Question is what is the purpose of Impedance matching?
The answer is Watts in must equal Watts out. (Isn't that right Mr. Watts: clap:)

Let's start with the Primary, I have already show it has 10 ohms

of impedance in it and how it is calculated.

Line(Primary) side=10 ohms
12volts/10ohms=1.2amps
1.2amps*12volts=14.4watts

Next we use a transformer (Amplifier) to match the Load side.
we need to know the total resistance of the load side.
Secondary side= 72.4+76.7+70.1+Re78.54+11.5=310 ohms

Now that we have a total resistance of the line side of 10ohms
and a total resistance of the load side of 310ohms

Next we take the 310ohms and 10ohms and use this formula to get the turn ratio.
Ns/Np=sqrt Zs/Zp   sqrt (310/10)=5.567
So we need a turn ratio of 5.567 to 1

We know our line voltage is 12volts We can times this by the turn ratio

of 5.567 which is =66.816 Load Voltage
Now we have our load voltage.
Next we calculate the load watts
using formula (66.816 ^2)/310ohms= 14.4 watts

That's how you do it. :bliss:
 
Matt, The 11.5 is the feedback coil.....and yes that is correct the chokes must match the secondary....That's why if you take turns off the L2 they must be added back to L1. In Stan's example secondary is 73ohms close enough,

then 76ohm for the L1 and 70 for L2 if you take 3ohms off the L1 and put that 3 ohms back on the L2 you can see they all match to 73ohms.

Why does he do this? It's to get the slight potential difference in voltage needed on the chokes. Yea My brain can't keep all this straight, that's the reason for the spreadsheet. Too much math to deal with all at the same time. Now you can see when someone ask me a question, how my brain gets all scrambled.
End Thread Comment

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Before doing anything else I decided to see what my systems would look like with 29 gage wire.  I used the information from the primary coil I wound to estimate the ohms per turn and came up 0.0156omhs/ft. (Coil I wound was 8.4 ohms and 540 turns so I divided 8.4/540 to get this estimate). I then used this number to estimate the number of turns required to get the required ohms for each coil.  Finally, I added all the secondary side turns include the one for Re and divided it my primary turns and got 29.45143. 

This is close to 30 a 30:1 ratio.  I am not sure if this is correct but none of the other ratios seemed correct.  I include Re even though there is not a coil for it as Re ohm value was include by Ronnie in doing his calculations and it did not seem right to leave it out.  I do know there will be some changes in value as length of turn on larger coils will be slightly longer which should reduce number of turns required to reach desired ohm value.

Table below is from my excel sheet I used repeat Ronnie’s calculations. I find do the calculations myself helps me understand where numbers come from and why.  Again, the turns work at this point is an estimate to see if I was even in the right ball part.

As the above table gave close to a 1:30 ratio I will continue winding coils to see what results I actually get.   As I want to get keep the ohm values close to numbers above, I am planning on winding the number of feet of wire that should give me desired ohm value.  This means I will need a method to accurately determine desire length of each coil. 

To do this I build a jig that I can wind wire on.  It will be two spools 5 feet apart mounted on a board, so each wrap is 10 feet long.  Using spools this far apart I should be easily able to fit the longest length.

Note:  There was some discussion in the thread about dealing with turns ratio and resistance mainly that one effects the other.  Discussion did not say which is more important other than Ronnie’s comment to not mess with turns ratio.  See his discussion on keeping Secondary, C1 and C2 ohms around 73 ohms and taking turns off C2 and putting them on to keep total ohm value of those two coils at average of 73 ohms. i.e. for each turn taken off C2 one needs to be put back on C1.  Which means you need to have enough wire available to do that.

  It was recommended that you leave wire on C1 and C2 long enough to adjust the balance which means you should have some length of wire that is not on the coils. This means you will have some wire and ohms that are not in turns calculation. Extra wire resistance is this there until satisfied with balance, but it will not be in magnetic field, so I am not sure how to account for this.

At this point I still do not have cells, just trying to understand why this piece is the way it is and if I can build it correctly even though I understand adjustment of C1 and C2 require properly configured cells. Ronnie even states you need to start with cells and build to them not the other way around as they define load you trying to balance.

I have rewound about 70 feet of wire that I took off the primary coil on to the Feedback coil as I calculated half of 11.5 was slightly over 70 feet. Turned out to be slight less than 70 feet to give 5.75 ohms (measured). Once I add the center tap for the 5-volt offset I will add another 70 feet.  Turns actual wire resistance is slightly high that estimated reference number I was using.

I wound it this way a that is what circuit diagram shows.  I think I read others have wound both wire at the same time. I have been trying to figure out which is the correct way and it may not matter the way it is connect to K14.  Voltage difference is not issue as it phasing of the signal is what is being used.