Coil Winder Machines
Coil Winder Machines Stanley A Meyer Coils Bobbins Transformers Chokes Ballast Vic
200mm CNC Coil Winding Machine
Dimensions of base plate 535mm width x 300mm depth
Max Bobbin Diameter (Height) 150mm
Max feeder travel approx 200mm
Max speed with Closed Loop Stepper Motor 2000RPM
Feeder Max resolution 0.0025 mm
Repeat ability along the 200mm length with a combination of C7 grade ball screw and linear round bearings, in increments of 0.1mm is 75% or more per ball screw turn, based on a 4mm pitch.
C5 ball screw and low profile rail upgrade kits are available at an extra cost to bring repeat ability up when using very small wire with very small movements.
This requirement is more for people using the Absolute Scripting engine with thousands of small movements and winding coils such as LVDT but not generally needed for typical coils.
For more information, please check te following link http://www.ukcnc.net/index.php/difference-between-c7-and-c5-ballscrew/
Wire range 0.02mm – 0.8mm (1mm single layer)
Closed Loop Stepper motor on Bobbin
Closed Loop Stepper motor on Feeder
Manual Felt Wire Tensioner
Low run out ER25 Collet Chucks
Bobbin frame and feeder frame are both on sliding grooves of the base plate and can be adjusted.
USB controlled via Windows software (XP and Windows7 , Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 supported)
Degree control on the motor with speeds as low as 1RPM
Manual speed controller that allows variable speed via a external dial on both bobbin and feeder arms, which allows for calibration and finding suitable winding speed.
Free Firmware upgrades and Free Windows Software.
12 month return to base warranty.
Basically it should cover most tasks for small business/hobby needs.
Please note that this machine is not designed to be a commercial machine that can be ran in a production environment 24/7.
This is designed for prototyping and small batch runs and hence the low price.
Also this machine is still in development, so please expect software, firmware and hardware upgrades as we strive to improve it. While the software and firmware upgrades will remain free, any hardware changes will be an additional charge if you choose to upgrade your machine.
If you need a machine for larger wire sizes and more torque on the bobbin motor, then please feel free to contact us and we can quote on a custom made machine to suit your needs. http://www.ukcnc.info/forums/cnc_customwork.php
All machines from August 2017 are now fitted with a DC Power Box.
This change prevents any damage to the Controller board by isolating the 24v line.
This is my coil winder with the mount I made to hold the VIC tube.
Coil winder has counter and can be used either 1 to 1 or 1 to 8.
The drive gears on new mount were selected to maintain this ratio.
See Coil winder with VIC Tube.jpg
The item laying on the base is used to wind fishing flies. I cut off the wires and just used tube.
I needed this mount to hold the rectangle tube to keep tube centered and because hole in tube is too small to fit shaft of coil winder.
There at 2 flange bearings in each post to keep things straight. I was concerned about the tension on belt causing problems without them. Purchased them on Amazon.
These match 4mm hole on one of the drive gears. I just used a 4mm screw to mount gear and wood box holding tube.
F695-2RS Bearing 5x13x4mm Flanged Miniature F695-RS Deep Groove Ball Bearings F695RS for VORON Mobius 2/3 3D Printer (Pick of 10Pcs)
I purchased the drive gears and belt on Amazon.
Kit Befenybay 2 Kit GT2 Synchronous Wheel 20&36 Teeth 8mm Bore
Aluminum Timing Pulley with 2 pcs Length 200mm Width 6mm Belt (20-36T-8B-6)
Kit came with 2 large gears 2 small gears and belt. I did purchase 2 different kits one for each size shaft, I used larger gear from each set this allowed me to keep the ratios the same as outside diameter is the same.
You can see it the tube better in the “Coil winder closeup of tube mount.jpg”.
The mount holding the tube manually swings left and right to guide the wire on to the coil though the tube. While there is a slight arc during this movement it should not be a problem. I used this tube as it has a ceramic tip and should protect the coating on the wire.
There are two bearings in the front mount top and bottom and a hole in the mount for the wire to feed though.
This mount can be moved over, and I drilled holes so it can be centered on each of the 3 coils spools.
The next step is to build a bracket to hold the spool of wire.
This should be easy, and I will provide a means of keeping tension on wire, so it spools cleanly.
Most likely with need more wire as I only have a pound. Wanted to make sure I could build a coil before I ordered more.
There are numbers for 30 gauge in this thread as well. I am going to re-read by collection of comments from this thread as it has directions on how to wire up coils as well.
29 gauge is the best it has a 1.2 amp rating, since we need 1 amp. 30 gauge is under rated it is only good for .86 amps. So a balance between 28 and 30 gauge is 29 gauge if you can get it. If you can't get 29 gauge,
I would shoot for 28 gauge for it has an amp rating of 1.4 amps.
Now I am back to the issue of how many turns to put on each coil. I plan on winding the coils based on the following post as I do not recall anything thing else that gave the number of turns for the primary and secondary.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #298, on October 31st, 2016, 07:10 PM »Last edited on October 31st, 2016, 07:17 PM
Threw this together to work through the impedance matching. Hopefully it's helpful.
The way I did this is to have a manual turns ratio, then a calculated turns ratio using Ronnie's formulas. You can use Excel to goal-seek so that the two values are equal. That will find the values you can build around. Base everything you do off the primary and you should be good to go.
This was one source I looked at. This is close but Stan’s primary was 10.5 ohms so another 12 turns would give 10.5 ohms matching Stan’s value.
After thinking about this for several days while I like the analysis, I do not feel it matches the cores I built. Mine are rectangle and follow the dimensions in the Project Icoros closely. So, I am going to try to use 540 turns.
I am using 29 gage wire which is 81.83 ohms/1000ft or .08183 ohms/foot. So, if I am only off a few feet it should not have much of impact on resistance value.
Remember we are using a 220-ohm resister in parallel across the primary coil. Goal is to create a 10-volt load on system. Using the formula for parallel resistors 220 ohms in parallel primary gives values in following table for different values of coils resistance on top:
10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5 10.6 10.7 10.8 10.9
9.675 9.767 9.859 9.95 10.04 10.13 10.22 10.32 10.41
Next couple of references explain why you need 220-ohm resistor and 30:1 ratio
Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #12, on December 2nd, 2015, 07:40 PM »Last edited on December 2nd, 2015, 07:45 PM
No really it runs cool not warm at all. If you take Stan's primary which is 10.5 ohms when you do the math on impedance on the primary you will find that it needs to be 10 ohms. (10.5 and 220 ohms in parallel = 10 ohms) So placing a 220-ohm resistor across the primary it bring it right down to where it needs to be.
Working toward 30:1 ratio see explanation from Ronnie below
Re: WATER FUEL CELL Technical Brief (Building, Testing and Understanding Stan's Work)
« Reply #1780, on December 22nd, 2014, 05:42 PM »Last edited on December 22nd, 2014, 08:48 PM
@ Webmug, When you add the total Z which you have at 219.2 ohms 220 just to round numbers excluding the Re of the water. Now you are saying the resistance of your water is 1972 ohms. Stan does not want the (R) resistance of the water, He is wanting the (Re) of the water. The Re of the water can be anywhere from 70 to 80 which is the Dielectric Constant of water. Stan say's the Re is 78.54 at 25C. Now let's add 220 total coil resistance, and 80 Re dielectric of water. Now we have the total Z which is 300. We now can divide 300/10.5 which = 28.57 so we have a 28.57/1 ratio. Odd ratio, now how do we fix this odd ratio. Simple just like Stan did........put a 220 ohm resistor across the primary.... Now we have a 220 ohm resistor in parallel with a 10.5 ohm coil.... Now what does this give us? It changes the 10.5 ohms in the primary to 10 ohms. Now we have 300/10 which equals 30:1 ratio. There you go now you have another piece of the mystery. You could have found this information at http://app.hydrofuel.ca Webmug when you get everything worked out you will see why you cannot use 1 cell to get this to work. There is now way because the capacitance is too high in the cell. Just keep working it out and you will see what I am talking about...Your doing a great Job as I have said before. Keep it up and don't give up, you have come to far.
To get started I wound 540 turns on 29 gage wire on primary spool. I was able to get first row to lay down smoothly went pretty fast as spool winder has an 1 to 8 ratio. It was almost impossible to do get other rows as smooth it is hard to see that small of wire. When I got done, I measured the resistance and got 8.4 ohms. Which means that I had just slightly more than 100 ft of wire on the spool, so I need either change wire size or add more turns. I did check 30 gage wire and 540 turns would be closer to 10.5 as it is 10.32 ohms per 100ft.
Advantage of 29 gage wire is it can handle 1.2 amps where 30 gage wire current limit is 0.86 amps. I seem to remember people were using 30 gage because they could not find 29 gage wire. Will have to see if I can find the discussion on wire size and turns ratios to see what I should be using.
Good new is coil winder setup is working though I may need to add method to measure length so I can get the right resistance.
Impendence matching is really not my thing but I understand it is important in this systems. At this point I am not sure I can just wind enough wire to get the right resistance or do I also need to have the right turns ratios. I know the choke coils need to have close turns ratios and need to be adjusted to match impedance. Just not sure right now if primary and secondary need a fixed ratio.
Oh well I building and testing to learn things.
Pictures of building first cut of primary coil
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #72, on October 24th, 2016, 03:03 PM »
Ronnie, Is that second stage (resonance) automatic when the voltage goes up to a certain level or we have to do something special?
We can clearly hear Stan saying that resonance superimposes the particle impact to the polarization process rising the yield of gas production (New Zealand house meeting video)
You want that resonance to occur at your peak voltage applied to the primary and not before. That way you get all the high voltage you can produce on the secondary side when it goes into resonance. The leakage current is what's controlled from 2 to 11 or 12 volts. it's automatic once tuned the L1 choke and cells has to be designed to setup the amp leakage along with Frequency.
Let's take Stan's primary for instance:
It has 10.5 ohms in the coil of wire used because he wants a 500 turn on the primary.
The wire he uses is rated at 1.2 amps. in order to get 1.2 amp in the primary you just take 10.5 ohms and a 220 ohm resistor in parallel with the coil and it will give you 1/(1/220+1/10.5)= 9.97 close enough to 10 ohms then you take 12volts/10ohms=1.2 amps
You don't want to fool with your turn count ratio.
I went back and re-read my collection of notes from the thread above. And 500 turns could be correct for 29 gate wire if the diameter of the coil is larger than mine. Will need to do some checking Ronnie in another post shows how to calculate turns ratios using watts in and watts out. It’s possible I just need to use more turns as long as I get the proper turns ratio.
There is a lot of information in this thread that I had forgotten. Talks about using different gape sizes legs of core to adjust voltage on plates B+ and B- (which need to be different) as well as using winding on L1 and L2 coils to get voltages correct.
Ronnie stated need to have pressure on cell to keep charge on cell so process does not need to start from scratch. As well as having 1.23 volts on cell at all times when running. When off the pressure keeps cell charged.
Also has the information on how to wire coils properly and says to use timing 41hz to charge cell.
I still have not figured out why this important other than you need even number of cells.
Only thing I can think of is total resistance of the cells as talks about using that in determining the 30 to 1 ratio.
Re: Stans VIC finally reverse engineered and ready to build.
« Reply #13, on December 3rd, 2015, 04:23 AM »Last edited on December 3rd, 2015, 04:40 AM
Nav, As you reverse engineer the VIC transformer I would like to give you a very important hint. At the same time you must reverse engineer the CELL at the same time.
If you don't, the reversed engineered VIC will be useless as you have seen in the past that everyone has tried to replicate. Keep this number (10) in the back of your mind at all times while your reading and doing your research. Stan used (10) Cells in series with his VIC for a very very important reason.
No one will ever be able to scale the VIC and Cell up or down unless they stumble upon why (10) cells were used in series.
Just keep (10) in your mind at all times, it is a very important number while you’re doing your impedance matching research.
This is one of the most useful post I have ever posted, and will determine if you or anyone are successful or not.
I repeat this over and over on this website as it is vital
What is the Total Z of this circuit using Stan's formulas?
You can work out the Z value of the L1 and L2 along with the capacitance value from the chart below and the formulas from the Tech Brief Eq 1,8,9. This will be with air core values.
I would like to see everyone's answer; this could show how everyone has a different answer.
Also notice where the #(10) shows up.
Only thing I see 10 of is the ohms for the cells. (could Re be a factor of 10??)
Also I find it interesting that I appears many people do not seem to build the feedback coil even though Ronnie uses the Z value in all his calculations including the turns calculations.
Once I figured out I need to add more turns to primary to get 10.5 ohms of resistance I became worried about turns ratio. The process looked right is excel spread sheet above I did not trust the turns ratios was correct, so I went back to Ronnie’s other thread and found this. Which shows I need a ratio of 5.567 to 1.
Will not know if I get close enough until I actually wind the wire. I plan to start out with primary winding know length of wire that is equal to 10.5 ohms. Coil winder will then give me number of turns for this resistance. Will do the same for secondary to see how close I get turns ratio.
There were comments about being something than you have to play with to get correct. Given a fix resistance and fixed turns ratio only thing in this system I can see you can change is spool width. I expect the changing the secondary would have the most effect do to increased length of each turn as you add more wire. There is some discussion about this issue in the thread.
In this post he also explains coil relation to secondary and goal of getting voltage potential across coil plates.
Re: "Understanding How Stan Meyers Fuel Cell Works"
« Reply #257, on October 30th, 2016, 07:36 PM »Last edited on November 13th, 2016, 02:32 PM
Using Stan's Vic and the numbers Don gave us as an example, I will attempt to show how to impedance match it all.
Question is what is the purpose of Impedance matching?
The answer is Watts in must equal Watts out. (Isn't that right Mr. Watts: clap:)
Let's start with the Primary,
I have already show it has 10 ohms of impedance in it and how it is calculated.
Line(Primary) side=10 ohms
Next we use a transformer (Amplifier) to match the Load side.
we need to know the total resistance of the load side.
Secondary side= 72.4+76.7+70.1+Re78.54+11.5=310 ohms
Now that we have a total resistance of the line side of 10ohms
and a total resistance of the load side of 310ohms
Next we take the 310ohms and 10ohms and use this formula to get the turn ratio.
Ns/Np=sqrt Zs/Zp sqrt (310/10)=5.567
So we need a turn ratio of 5.567 to 1
We know our line voltage is 12volts We can times this by the turn ratio of 5.567 which is =66.816 Load Voltage
Now we have our load voltage.
Next we calculate the load watts
using formula (66.816 ^2)/310ohms= 14.4 watts
That's how you do it. :bliss:
The 11.5 is the feedback coil....
.and yes that is correct the chokes must match the secondary..
..That's why if you take turns off the L2 they must be added back to L1.
In Stan's example secondary is 73ohms close enough, then 76ohm for the L1 and 70 for L2
if you take 3ohms off the L1 and put that 3 ohms back on the L2 you can see they all match to 73ohms.
Why does he do this?
It's to get the slight potential difference in voltage needed on the chokes.
Yea My brain can't keep all this straight, that's the reason for the spreadsheet.
Before doing anything else I decided to see what my systems would look like with 29 gage wire.
I used the information from the primary coil I wound to estimate the ohms per turn and came up 0.0156omhs/ft.
(Coil I wound was 8.4 ohms and 540 turns so I divided 8.4/540 to get this estimate).
I then used this number to estimate the number of turns required to get the required ohms for each coil.
Finally, I added all the secondary side turns include the one for Re and divided it my primary turns and got 29.45143.
This is close to 30 a 30:1 ratio.
I am not sure if this is correct but none of the other ratios seemed correct.
I include Re even though there is not a coil for it as Re ohm value was include by Ronnie in doing his calculations and it did not seem right to leave it out.
I do know there will be some changes in value as length of turn on larger coils will be slightly longer which should reduce number of turns required to reach desired ohm value.
Table below is from my excel sheet I used repeat Ronnie’s calculations. I find do the calculations myself helps me understand where numbers come from and why. Again, the turns work at this point is an estimate to see
if I was even in the right ball part.
As the above table gave close to a 1:30 ratio I will continue winding coils to see what results I actually get. As I want to get keep the ohm values close to numbers above,
I am planning on winding the number of feet of wire that should give me desired ohm value. This means I will need a method to accurately determine desire length of each coil. To do this I build a jig that I can wind wire on. It will be two spools 5 feet apart mounted on a board, so each wrap is 10 feet long. Using spools this far apart I should be easily able to fit the longest length.
Note: There was some discussion in the thread about dealing with turns ratio and resistance mainly that one effects the other.
Discussion did not say which is more important other than Ronnie’s comment to not mess with turns ratio. See his discussion on keeping Secondary, C1 and C2 ohms around 73 ohms and taking turns off C2 and putting them on to keep total ohm value of those two coils at average of 73 ohms. i.e. for each turn taken off C2 one needs to be put back on C1.
Which means you need to have enough wire available to do that. It was recommended that you leave wire on C1 and C2 long enough to adjust the balance which means you should have some length of wire that is not on the coils. This means you will have some wire and ohms that are not in turns calculation. Extra wire resistance is this there until satisfied with balance, but it will not be in magnetic field, so I am not sure how to account for this.
At this point I still do not have cells, just trying to understand why this piece is the way it is and if I can build it correctly even though I understand adjustment of C1 and C2 require properly configured cells. Ronnie even states you need to start with cells and build to them not the other way around as they define load you trying to balance.
I have rewound about 70 feet of wire that I took off the primary coil on to the Feedback coil as I calculated half of 11.5 was slightly over 70 feet. Turned out to be slight less than 70 feet to give 5.75 ohms (measured). Once I add the center tap for the 5-volt offset I will add another 70 feet. Turns actual wire resistance is slightly high that estimated reference number I was using.
I wound it this way a that is what circuit diagram shows. I think I read others have wound both wire at the same time. I have been trying to figure out which is the correct way and it may not matter the way it is connect to K14. Voltage difference is not issue as it phasing of the signal is what is being used.
RARE SAVE IT
Download 2 Testing files here below are the 2 links
This File is large may not open in browser or ap this is a normal thingp with out download
any issue email Dan
Here is my graph of the 5 coils C-core VIC transformer using all the exact values of the air coils from 100Hz to 10kHz from Dynodon excel sheet.
This is what my impedance analyser measured with only one WFC attached with rain water in it. I did a scan from 10kHz to 30kHz.
I give you measurements of two core materials used in this transformer and you can see what is happening with the frequencies and the impedances. Remember Stan was using a lower perm core without airgap, so his frequency is much higher!!!
Now the main question is why this thing has high impedances on frequencies where the WFC capacitance can never have LC resonance between positive coil and WFC capacitance because my wfc is too high in capacitance?
And the chokes have high impedance on the same frequency.
But the resonance takes place at 14.4kHz and 16.7kHz so the cell has about 64-80pF instead of 1.1nF what I measured?
Also the chokes impedance peaks are unequal in heights, so there is something missing. If you adjust the Rp (primary parallel resistor) you can adjust the peak heights of the impedances, never the frequency!
This has to do with using only one WFC instead of the series WFC array and or using multiple VICs...
Coil tests very accurate
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